30 Apr 2023 08:22:38
Looks like we have set the price for Archer -£20 million if rumours are to be believed.
30 Apr 2023 09:42:35
Like Gerrard before him, it’s been clear for a while that Emery is not convinced with Archer.
I will be disappointed if we do sell him but that disappointment would be softened if we get anything like £20m for him.
30 Apr 2023 10:04:19
I agree that £20 million would soften the blow somewhat, but my concern is the message it sends out. This lad has scored at every level he has played at, and yet we are willing to sell him without giving him the opportunity to do it at the highest level I am struggling to understand why.
I have said before it seems that our much vaunted academy’s primary role is to develop talent that other clubs will exploit. I was disappointed when Chukwuemeka moved to Chelsea, admittedly he hasn’t kicked on as yet but I think if sold Archer will come back to haunt us.
30 Apr 2023 12:48:50
I'd like him to get a chance but with his hold up play not coming close to Watkins I don't see him fitting Emerys system at least until we can dominate games more regularly.
The one thing I wouldn't want to do is your suggestion of loaning to a prem club. A prem loan would likely be to a side that would struggle at the bottom and probably destroy his value in the short term like it did with Abrahams loan to Swansea.
If our aim is to be one of the top teams then giving players experience at the top of the Championship us far more valuable than that of a relegation battle.
30 Apr 2023 13:21:30
We have given him experience at the top level in the Championship and he has passed that test with flying colours, no point repeating the exercise.
30 Apr 2023 14:01:17
Until he fits our plans it's sale or loan and if it's a loan it needs to be one that is beneficial. Sending him somewhere to be starved of service in a team not set up to play like we do is pointless.
He has only had 2 half seasons there, one in a team aiming for playoffs and 1 in a team that was pushing for promotion but are now stuck with playoffs. One full season at a top Championship side wouldn't hurt him and would evidence him doing it for a whole year while we improve our squad to one that can play in a way he would fit into.
30 Apr 2023 14:30:30
If we buy a striker in the summer which would in effect make him fourth choice then if I was him at 22 years of age, and if he has anything about him which given his record he clearly does, then I’d be off to somewhere my goalscoring abilities are appreciated more than they are at Villa.
30 Apr 2023 16:13:23
LotM it’s clear you’re a fan of Archer and I can see why but if Emery isn’t convinced then that’s good enough for me. I trust him.
I’ve seen many young players on the fringe of Villa 1st team and not many have made it (Grealish and Ramsey the most recent examples)
Remember the Moore brothers in the FA Youth Cup winning team, never made it at Villa and in the end didn’t achieve anything anywhere else.
Can’t recall too many youngsters we’ve discarded going on to prove Villa wrong, although I might be wrong.?
30 Apr 2023 16:21:38
Pukka and Norwich proved more than once that if you haven't got the players to control the game then its useless having a striker who is just good at putting it in the net.
Until our squad is capable of consistently playing through the lines and controlling possession then he would just be a passenger most of the time. It doesn't matter how much they appreciate his finishing, we currently require a striker who brings more to the game.
30 Apr 2023 16:52:01
AvFc67 here’s two off the top of my head Gary Cahill and Brian McClair
30 Apr 2023 16:58:15
rk you are assuming he can’t do it without giving the guy a chance to show whether he can or not. If he can’t then sell him by all means but having been challenged to show what he can do he has succeeded at every level surely that in itself deserves him being given the chance to show what he can do at elite level.
Also there are plenty of examples of strikers who contributed very little to the team’s overall performance except when it came to putting the ball in the back of the net Gary Lineker being but one of a striker is capable of scoring goals but does little else that will do for me.
30 Apr 2023 17:33:08
Your best example of a striker doing that is from over 30 years ago, it's not remotely comparable to today's game.
Archer has his attributes but if they don't match what the manager wants in that position he isn't going to be picked ahead of others who do.
For all we know Archer might move up the pecking order over the summer if we make signings that allow us to play differently.
30 Apr 2023 18:16:45
I haven’t done the research rk but here’s a few more whose game was about goals and not much else, more recent than Lineker and in the premiership era, Andy Cole, Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Robbie Fowler. With a bit of research I could probably come up with a few more.
30 Apr 2023 19:08:20
Still nothing recent. Van Nistelrooy is the closest at around 15 years ago and mostly proves my point in that he played for a United team that absolutely dominated possession which allowed him to be that passenger.
30 Apr 2023 19:54:04
We will have to agree to differ, goals is the name of the game and goals is the currency you judge strikers by. If my striker spends 80 minutes strolling round the park not doing a great deal but scores a hat trick in the last 10 minutes that will do for me I really don’t care what he does the rest of the time
30 Apr 2023 20:36:56
You're completely missing the point that a striker can only do that if he has the chances. Unless you're a team like City that can camp in the opposition half for large periods then you don't get those chances unless you also bring something else to the game.
30 Apr 2023 22:49:09
I’m not missing the point I think it’s you that doesn’t get it. Plenty of teams have won games that they haven’t controlled and by that I mean having 30% or less possession, it’s all about converting your chances and for that you need a clinical finisher if they bring other attributes that’s great but if he doesn’t I don’t care as long as he scores goals.
01 May 2023 00:12:51
Todays game was a perfect example, I’d of much rathered bringing on archer than Duran for the last 20 mins when we needed a gold, Ollie was on the pitch to do what he does and have archer playing off him to stick the ball in the net. I don’t buy the fact that Emery clearly doesn’t rate him, he didn’t have him long enough to see the best of him, ollie wasn’t pulling up trees before archer moved either but sticking with him has paid off. I think he’ll come back in the summer full of confidence and change Emery’s mind in pre-season.
01 May 2023 06:10:42
Totally agree, if you watched last nights Match of the Day you had another perfect example of what I was referring to in the Newcastle v Southampton game. In the first half Newcastle ‘controlled’ the game loads of possession chance after chance but go in at halftime 0-1 bring on another striker in Callum Wilson who in the next 45 minutes scores two has one disallowed and also hits the bar that’s the type of natural finisher I’m talking about.
01 May 2023 07:41:55
But you previously said you don't want him only getting the last end of the game and now you've moved the goalposts.
Our system is 1 out and out striker. If that 1 is Archer and not Watkins then Archer is lucky if he gets 1 chance in a lot of games.
The other thing you have to factor in is that although he might take a higher percentage of chances, the ball would be coming back at us a lot more causing the rest of the team to do a lot more running and eventually leave Archer isolated like Pukki and Norwich previously mentioned.
01 May 2023 08:48:47
I haven’t said that at all, what I have said is I want a clinical finisher and given Archer’s goal record he deserves to be given a chance to prove his worth at elite level, I don’t care whether it’s at the start or the end of games he just needs a chance.
Whilst I accept our system is primarily one up top how do you arrive at your assertion that Archer will only get one chance in a lot of games? He runs the channels well, links up play, and seems more of a natural finisher than a lot of strikers of his age.It seems to me you are making a sweeping generalisation based on very little if any fact.
I think I have been fairly clear in terms of what i would like to see happen, it’s my opinion and an honestly held view, and whilst I can explain it to you regrettably I can’t understand it for you.
01 May 2023 09:35:17
You have said multiple times you don't want him only getting 10 minutes at the end of games.
I understand your view completely but it's tunnel vision of the highest level.
He runs a lot but most of the time those runs are easily telegraphed if you add in top level defenders.
He doesn't have the strength to be effective at hold up play. To take a jab at my understanding is hypocritical when you talk about his link up play and I've been saying we need to have a team capable of controlling the middle of the pitch to get him involved.
There have been a few games where Ollie only gets a couple of chances and that is only because of how he got involved with his strength and hold up play, put Archer into those games and he doesn't get a sniff.
01 May 2023 11:04:31
There’s no such thing as a 1 striker setup when your chasing a game with 10 or 15 mins left, you get your attacking players on the pitch, lots of scenarios where he gets game time.
1. Ollie gets a knock
2. System not working like yesterday and need to change it up a little.
3. Game put to bed, wrap Ollie in cotton wool.
4. Cup run.
Squads with strength and depth are not full of like for like players you need some variety not every game is the same. players like Toney, David, Thuram, Abraham are not going to be happy to come and play second fiddle to Ollie, archer and Duran can fill that role.
01 May 2023 11:47:27
Firstly you are absolutely right I don’t want him to get 10 minutes here and there, but how about next season the odd half an hour? or a Carabao Cup tie or maybe do something similar to what Brighton are doing with Ferguson start him one in every three to see if he can cut it at top level, if he leaves without us trying him we will never know. Secondly, how can you say his runs are telegraphed? He hasn’t had the chance in the premiership to know whether that’s the case or not, and if they were as easily telegraphed as you suggest he wouldn’t have had as many goal contributions as he has got in the championship, and as for saying he wouldn’t get the chances Ollie gets because of his hold up play you may well be right but he may create different types of chance and at the risk of being even more controversial Archer seems to me to be a more instinctive/natural finisher than Watkins but I absolutely accept that’s further down the food chain but again I reiterate we are never going to know if he can do it in the premiership unless we give him a chance. As I said in an earlier post let’s agree to differ on this one?
Just a thought have you thought about following the Small Heath lot?