24 Oct 2021 00:27:02
The simple maths is that, after nine games, we are just six points above the relegation zone and equal on points with Watford. If we had won the last two games we would be fourth and in a probable Champions League spot. We are also 3 years into our owners 5 year vision to make us a league super-power so I would surmise that their patience may be starting to wear a little thin in terms of progress. Given the expenditure on players and the potential talent we have, it is difficult to pinpoint the exact issue - lack of agility in changing players/ tactics/ formation during games, players who are not engaged (Olllie, Buendia) or almost 3 months without our supposed new Messiah's (Bailey), but these factors combined would suggest that expectations are not being met in terms of the direction we are taking and so, if things don't dramatically improve, management change, no matter how much we love Deano, is inevitable methinks.

1.) 24 Oct 2021
24 Oct 2021 09:08:55
You say we are only 6 points off the relegation zone to push a negative but we are exactly the same number of points off top 4 because we are still only 1/ 4 of the way through the season.
People keep saying Smith needs to change his tactics. He did that and now everyone wants him to change back. Also, complaining about not changing the system against every opponent when no other manager does that. The "top" managers also stick to their systems and only change once or twice a season and rarely flip a switch after 20 minutes even if going wrong (klopp changed nothing when we were battering Liverpool) .
Our 5 year plan was to be knocking on the door of the Champions League (not competing outright for titles) . Mid table up to Europa League is the position we were looking for when the project started and you don't move the goalposts especially when you have to sell your biggest asset.
Imagine a manager in business being sacked in year 4 when their goal was 1mill total revenue increase in 5 years but they stagnated on 750k in years 3 and 4 while introducing new projects.
Of course if the team starts making a habit out of not working hard enough and shanking everything that comes their way then something needs to be done. If we're below 14th and more than 6 points from 10th at Christmas I'm sure there will at least be discussions but there is no way they are being had at this moment.

2.) 24 Oct 2021
24 Oct 2021 09:57:56
Top managers have the luxury of two world class players to every position RK, they may not adapt their formation but they certainly do interchange players depending on the opposition which does have an impact on style, balance and approach to the game. Smith is currently trying to find a formation that allows him to play Ings and Watkins despite no obvious signs of a partnership developing and this is having an impact on squad balance. Again, I'm not Smith Out, I agree we are only a few wins away from Europe and this squad is capable of stringing a run of results together but we are also a few loses away from being dragged into the mire. Smith needs to find a style and balance quickly or it will cost him his job, it's a five year plan for the Club not Smith and I don't think our owners will accept another bottom half finish given the level of investment.

3.) 24 Oct 2021
24 Oct 2021 10:30:43
I'm fully aware of that but 8th-12th as long as we're in the mix towards the end won't be a disastrous result.
At the same time we can't complain that he isn't trying something different when he has. It hasn't worked so he should go back to the 433 which suits us better.
I personally didn't see the point of bringing in Tuanzebe and it feels like he is being shoehorned in more than the strike partnership but also the arrival of Ings has disturbed Ollies form as he came to be the main centre forward and Smith doesn't want to completely kill him off by forcing him back out wide where he doesn't want to be.
He will have to disappoint an expensive striker at some point though as they are both intent on being the goalscorer which means they don't interchange effectively.

4.) 24 Oct 2021
24 Oct 2021 10:33:01
39 points from 99 since the turn of the year
Pretty damn poor if you ask me.

5.) 24 Oct 2021
24 Oct 2021 13:07:31
I’d take a finish between 8th and 14th, and would have before the start of the season. There are teams in the Prem who have been trying to break that European top 8 for years, wasting serious resource on the way and for the most part failing to achieve it.

We had a decent season last year, but then lost the biggest part of that in the summer. I’d sooner see us establish ourselves as a solid premier league side and build from there, than go poo or bust and end up back where we started, as we’ve seen others do so often.

Smith will always have his unnecessary critics, because he hasn’t got a fancy foreign name essentially. But he will also have the reasonable critics because he does make mistakes, but he’s been here three years and every time he’s corrected those mistakes and bounced back. The 5 at the back served a purpose, got us a memorable win at Old Trafford and got us through a bad spell where our two most effective wingers were injured. Now there back you’d expect to see smiths favoured 433 or 4231 back in action.

6.) 24 Oct 2021
24 Oct 2021 15:06:58
Anything lower than 10th is shocking and will get him fired, if he's lasted that long anyway he will be gone by xmas i reckon anyway.

7.) 24 Oct 2021
24 Oct 2021 15:58:48
We really need an age limit on the sensible debates/ threads on here. Every reply in this thread, including the original from Menace is well explained and put forward, and although the responses aren’t in agreement, not matter what side of the fence you’re on you can see the others point because it has been back up with facts etc.

Then you get “Anything lower than 10th is shocking and will get him fired, if he's lasted that long anyway he will be gone by xmas i reckon anyway. ”, no reasoning, no sensible, well thought out argument, no explanation, just pure nonsensical garbage. Like banging your head up the wall.

8.) 24 Oct 2021
24 Oct 2021 16:16:00
Dont need to explain anything every1 can see villa rnt going anywhere with smith in charge its been like this for 18 months, an average championship manager who has spent 400 million pound on what and we are 14 in league bet our owners are loving this, people need to wake up if we want to go any higher we need a topclass manager not a 2nd rate manager who is tacticly useless and couldn't motivate himself, villa are going bckwards and will probably finish 15th with him in charge most will probably be happy with that i won't and can't see our owners being happy aswell.

9.) 24 Oct 2021
24 Oct 2021 19:22:41
Well that was a intelligent debate with some great posts up until it was spoilt by someone who lacks intelligence.

10.) 25 Oct 2021
25 Oct 2021 00:43:26
Every season Smith has been in charge, Villa have progressed. Until that changes he deserves to be backed. and even if we have one season where we 'consolidate' its fair to suggest he should be backed. Knee jerk reactions due to a bit of bad form less than a third of the way through a season is what clubs like Watford get mocked for. We should be better than this.

11.) 25 Oct 2021
25 Oct 2021 02:11:38
Hes been backed enough 400milion how much more should he waste, no thanks he shouldn't be at our club.

12.) 25 Oct 2021
25 Oct 2021 06:42:22
Liverpool were barely mid table up to a point last season with a squad that had won the league and CL. Klopp had spent a fortune on players and insisted on sticking with his high defensive line that wasn't working. Injuries also led to him putting square pegs in round holes despite having players for those positions.
Liverpool bounced back because they didn't bin their manager after a poor few months.
We are in a very similar position. Injuries and preseason issues have meant we still have not been able to call upon the team Smith was looking to play. He's tried to get around that with something that worked against both a defensive Everton and an attacking United as well as a large portion of the Wolves game until subs were made.
The system was proven to work against different opposition but like any system requires the players to turn up which they didn't do against Spurs or Arsenal.
The only need to change back for me is because with both Matts not 100% fighting fit they need the cover which they are not getting in this system. Mings and Konsa are way too reluctant to pull wide or forward because of Axel. We just don't have a strong enough third defender to play 3.

13.) 25 Oct 2021
25 Oct 2021 09:22:36
Some on here seem determined for us to become a laughing stock like a Watford etc. Thankfully I don’t think the owners will bow down to the whining illogical screams of impatient children.

We get rid of smith, bring someone new in, come the end of the season these same people will want him gone if we aren’t in the top 6.

14.) 25 Oct 2021
25 Oct 2021 14:46:26
No 1 has mentioned top6 where you got that from, bet you said the same when cabbage head was in charge aswell.

15.) 25 Oct 2021
25 Oct 2021 17:12:11
When you hit 18 son, come back to me?.

16.) 26 Oct 2021
26 Oct 2021 01:48:18
RK, there is a big difference between Liverpool’s squad and ours, which is why they went on to finish top 4, city had a blip also at start of the season but they have the squads to turn it around, although ours has improved we are still a million miles off those guys, klopp and pep would never be sacked for a bad run cause of their record for winning trophies with city and Liverpool, tactically they are both brilliant managers, they are brilliant man managers are really know how to get the best from players, smith is nowhere near them and has no such reputation yet to fall back on, he has done well, he has made us better but the big question is where is his ceiling, personally I think he’s at it, time will tell I think he has maybe 4 or 5 more games to sort it out before the owners get itchy fingers.
you mentioned the formation working against Everton but your wrong, the Everton game was a boring dull game with nil nil written all over it, smith changed the shape he took off targett and brought on bailey, bailey was playing as a winger and we destroyed them in a 20 minute spell till he got injured, smith then brought on young and we switched back to 5-3-2 and we saw out the game, so really the 5-3-2 didn’t exactly work, Everton showed no ambition so smith took a gamble and switched it around and it worked brilliantly and he got the plaudits he deserved as he made totally the right calls when needed, also worth noting that Everton were missing Calvert lewin and richarlison plus a couple of other regulars, we played them at a great time.
I agree about axel he is not good enough, I think hause is better and he’s also a threat at set pieces, not the best defender but he has more about him than axel, axel looks like a baby deer falling over himself half the time.

17.) 26 Oct 2021
26 Oct 2021 06:21:21
Whack I feel if anything you are proving the points Chris and I make.
Klopp had a bigger squad that was more experienced at the top level and still found himself in that position halfway through a season. It was far longer than a blip and but for a couple of very fortuitous results during that period they wouldn't have ended up in the top 4.
Because he is Klopp nobody batted an eyelid. Pep and Klopp have garnered their reputations with relative ease. All of their successes have come from clubs that were already well established and mostly during not particularly competitive moments in their respective leagues. They are still good managers but we can't definitively say Smith is not their level when he has not had the same exposure.
We have a very good, talented squad who have the potential to push us towards Europe but the only one with genuine experience at the top is Ashley Young.
Everton was fine, we controlled the game with ease. Sometimes you wear your opponents down rather than blowing them away from the start. Smith didn't change formation, he literally changed Bailey for Targett as he was struggling. If Bailey didn't pull up he would have been expected to drop back in like any wing back.
I don't agree with people on Hause. He gets a free ride because he scores a couple of headers but heading is his only attribute from what I've seen.
Positioning, thinking time on the ball, passing and pace are all well below par. Him and Axel are both a backup level defender who are fine to cover injuries and suspension but you don't want them around too long.

{Ed001's Note - you mean the Klopp that built his reputation at Mainz? A club that had never been in the top flight before he took charge. That Klopp?}

18.) 26 Oct 2021
26 Oct 2021 07:31:48
To be fair Ed that got him the Dortmund job but his worldwide reputation came from what he did with Dortmund. I'd say most fans who don't follow his career wouldn't know that, similar to Mourinho prior to Porto.
Smith is currently in that Mainz to Dortmund transition. It could still either go the way of a Klopp or the way of a David Wagner. He's reached the public eye and once he has his full team fit he will then be judged.
The squad he has means 4th-7th is top level form, 8th-12th is as expected and anything lower is underperforming. I'm not sure even the very top managers could force this team much past 6th even with a lot of luck.

{Ed001's Note - Smith is way past the Mainz to Dortmund transition, he has been in long enough to be fully in the Dortmund bit. And I would personally say so far he has done all that could be expected of him. Winning promotion and consolidating the position is all you can ask in the modern game. He needs a couple more seasons before you can really expect him to push on.}

19.) 26 Oct 2021
26 Oct 2021 07:55:20
Thank f&;k, someone from an outside neutral perspective has said it, thought I was going mental for a second.

I’ve just read if we don’t beat West Ham it’s time for Smith to be sacked, either this is a product of what a bit of progression does, people start having delusions of grandeur and think we should be jumping up year on year, or some people are just so far out of touch with the modern game, they live in a dream world. Either way these attitudes are detrimental to the club and and any progression we might achieve in the long term.

{Ed001's Note - it is the modern way, everything has to be now and nobody wants to work and earn anything. They forget that people worked hard to get the world into a position where stuff could come easy and just want the easy bit without the effort.}

20.) 26 Oct 2021
26 Oct 2021 08:10:35
I see where you're coming from but comparisons can definitely be drawn I feel. From where we were 3 seasons ago to make us a relatively comfortable mid table team is a similar jump to dortmunds (although beating Bayern to the title twice was still an incredible acheivement) .
Another manager might possibly have an effect over an extra couple of places but Van Gaal and Mourinho have proven that's not always the case in recent years.

{Ed001's Note - except Dortmund were bankrupt when he took over, while Smith has been heavily backed in the transfer market. It is not a comparable at all. Smith has done well, but they are totally different achievements earnt in completely different ways. It is very difficult to compare anything in English football to any other country anyway, because of the difference in numbers of competitive teams you have to beat to step up a level. The English leagues are much harder. Much much harder.}